Soundwise.org - Setting up the DD-51 Part 1

Setting up the DD-51 Part 1

-Donald1800

Ok, guys. Here is the result of analyzing many pages of e-mail info. from Klipsch on the 'practical' use of the 4 Prologic modes selectable from the display panel.

1. ProLogic Disable - Use this setting when

a. Using digital/optical input with Dolby Digital/DTS encoded media.

b. Using ANY input and you want only stereo (not even simulated surround)

2. ProLogic Enable - Use this setting when

a. Using digital/optical input with ProLogic media, or stereo media and you want to simulate surround by utilizing naturally recorded delay or reverb. This setting is overridden if a Dolby Digital/DTS signal is detected, so this is a safe bet for full time use.

b. Using analog inputs (Line, Aux1, Aux2) with TV, etc, that transmit programming in Dolby Surround, or simulating surround sound by utilizing naturally recorded delay or reverb. This unit does a great job simulating surround sound with few noticeable artifacts. Again, a safe bet for full time use.

It's my personal opinion that the following two modes should be ignored.

3. ProLogic Auto - This mode CAN NOT detect ProLogic from ANY analog input source (Line, Aux1, Aux2. No 'tagging' or 'flagging'). The only Auto switching occurres with the digital inputs (coax./Opt.) with ancient and rare material/media encoded with DD2.0.

4. All PCM - A redundant limited subset of the 'Enable' mode.

So, there you have it. A simple selection of 'ProLogic Enable', or ProLogic Disable'. I've found that 'ProLogic Enable' works great for me 100% of the time. Enjoy.

Here is a fast way to estimate the delay for the SL/SR speakers when using the DD-5.1 decoder that allows this adjustment. Sound travels approx. 1 ft. per millisec (ms). The estimated delay time is the distance in ft. from the front speakers to your ears, minus the distance in ft. from the rear speakers to your ears, times 1 ms, rounded to the nearest whole number. An example, L=14ft R=13ft, R/L avg.=13.5ft SL=6ft SR=5ft, SLSR avg.=5.5ft. 13.5-5.5=8 8X1ms=8ms delay. If you want to be truly accurate, calculate the left side separately for the SL delay, multiplying by .92ms, then the right side for SR (X.92ms). Round to the nearest whole number. SL=7ms, SR=7ms If you want to include the center speaker in your calculations, its the distance in ft. from the R/L speakers, minus the distance in ft. from the center speakers times 1ms (.92ms). 13.5-12.5X.92=.92ms, or 1ms. Thats all folks.

Equalizer Settings 03-31-2002

Well folks, this has been a very surprising experiment. It now appears that my first reported set of EQ settings were in fact done in stereo mode. Many tests alternating between stereo and ProLogic modes have confirmed that the first setup was nearly identical to my current STEREO settings. The surprise concerns the settings required for +/-3db output and Band1= 0db for ProLogic mode. I don't know if it is due to room acoustical effects (center speaker only in ProLogic mode), ProLogic processing, or both. There is a larger hole at Band2 (around 250hz) and Band4 (around 8khz) and a reduction of Subwoofer bass which requires less attenuation at the Pod SW setting. I will give you three sets of settings - Stereo, ProLogic, and AVG. which splits the difference between the two, and can be used under all modes if a single, though inaccurate, setting is desired. Again, the speakers are mounted slightly above ear level (sitting) on wood paneling walls with hi-lo wall-to-wall carpet, upholstered couch, love seat and chair.

STEREO +/-3db output, Band1= 0db:

Pod SW= -9db, Band1= 0db, Band2= +3db, Band3= +1db, Band4= +2db, Band5= +10db

ProLogic +/-3db output, Band1= 0db:

Pod SW= -3db, Band1= 0db, Band2= +10db, Band3= 0db, Band4= +4db, Band5= +10db

AVG.

Pod SW= -6db, Band1= 0db, Band2= +7db, Band3= +1db, Band4= +3db, Band5= +10db

Well guys, I finally dug out from storage my pink noise generator and audio freq. analyzer to set up the DD-5.1 equalizer with PM 5.1 speakers. I have them mounted on the wood paneled walls of our living room which has a hi-lo wall-to-wall carpet, an upholstered couch, love seat and chair, and thin/shear curtains (no drapes) over the windows. The room is basically neutral acoustically. I cranked up the volume to 80db SPL and set the analyzer for C weighting and started the EQ adjustments. The results were surprising.

[Revised - These adjustments may have been erroneously made while in the Prologic Enable mode. Since R/L channels contain the same signal, the decoder strips the signal and routes it to the center channel ONLY. I will redo after instrumentation is recharged. This will also indicate speaker placement/room acoustics effects]

To realize a flat response with the Pod SW= 0db and a +/- 3db output, use the following EQ settings: Band1= -9db, Band2= +2db, Band3= +2db, Band4= 0db, Band5= +10db. I personally prefer to set Band1= 0db and set Pod SW= -9db for flat response, Pod SW= -6db for music, and Pod SW= 0db for DVD's and XBox games.

I was not surprised by the high amplitude bass, but I was by the severe High Freq. rolloff. I asked Klipsch on Monday if this was a result of using a 'near field' speaker system in a 'far field' application/environment where the high freq. are spread widely over a 90 deg. pattern, or if this was a characteristic of the tweeters. I have not received an answer to this question to date. They evidently feel that these answers are company classified confidential. Oh well. At least the info. for setting the equalizer is available to those who have this system but don't have the instrumentation /knowledge to find out what it needs to be. Try it out. I found the improvement remarkable, and may eliminate TheEAR's objections to the PM 5.1.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Donald1800:

As I understand it, the application of the Bass Configuration for Klipsch speaker systems are as follows:

Bass Conf. 1 Small speaker mode. Used for other brand speakers with small single transducers (speakers)

Bass Conf. 2 2.1 (stereo)

Bass Conf. 3 4.1

Bass Conf. 4 5.1

Andy W (Klipsch tech rep):

#1 is indeed "small" mode for all 5 satellites. In this mode the DD-5.1 is doing the bass management, like any preamp/processor does, only that the frequency of the crossover is fixed. The ProMedia 5.1 does it's own bass management, which is why "large" mode is recommended.

#2 is "large" mains and "small" center and surrounds.

#3 is "large" mains and surrounds and "small" center.

Bass Config. Off is all satellites in "large" mode.

--> for the ProMedia 4.1 the recommended setting is "BASS CONFIG. OFF" (all sats "large") and "SPK C OFF" (using the Cen button on the remote). Turning off the center speaker mixes the center channel into the front left and right for a phantom center channel. Also turn off the sub output ("SPK SW OFF").

--> for the ProMedia 2.1 the recommended setting is "BASS CONFIG. OFF" and "SPK C OFF" and "SPK SUR OFF" (using the SL/SR button on the remote). Turning off the surround speakers mixes the rear channels into the fronts. Also turn off the sub output ("SPK SW OFF").

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now from Justin...

Here is the back of the DD51 for those who do not have one yet.





Setting up the DD-51 Part 1 -Donald1800 Ok, guys. Here is the result of analyzing many pages of e-mail info. from Klipsch on the 'practical' use of the 4 Prologic modes selectable from the display panel. 1. ProLogic Disable - Use this setting when a. Using digital/optical input with Dolby Digital/DTS encoded media. b. Using ANY input and you want only stereo (not even simulated surround) 2. ProLogic Enable - Use this setting when a. Using digital/optical input with ProLogic media, or stereo media and you want to simulate surround by utilizing naturally recorded delay or reverb. This setting is overridden if a Dolby Digital/DTS signal is detected, so this is a safe bet for full time use. b. Using analog inputs (Line, Aux1, Aux2) with TV, etc, that transmit programming in Dolby Surround, or simulating surround sound by utilizing naturally recorded delay or reverb. This unit does a great job simulating surround sound with few noticeable artifacts. Again, a safe bet for full time use. It's my personal opinion that the following two modes should be ignored. 3. ProLogic Auto - This mode CAN NOT detect ProLogic from ANY analog input source (Line, Aux1, Aux2. No 'tagging' or 'flagging'). The only Auto switching occurres with the digital inputs (coax./Opt.) with ancient and rare material/media encoded with DD2.0. 4. All PCM - A redundant limited subset of the 'Enable' mode. So, there you have it. A simple selection of 'ProLogic Enable', or ProLogic Disable'. I've found that 'ProLogic Enable' works great for me 100% of the time. Enjoy. Here is a fast way to estimate the delay for the SL/SR speakers when using the DD-5.1 decoder that allows this adjustment. Sound travels approx. 1 ft. per millisec (ms). The estimated delay time is the distance in ft. from the front speakers to your ears, minus the distance in ft. from the rear speakers to your ears, times 1 ms, rounded to the nearest whole number. An example, L=14ft R=13ft, R/L avg.=13.5ft SL=6ft SR=5ft, SLSR avg.=5.5ft. 13.5-5.5=8 8X1ms=8ms delay. If you want to be truly accurate, calculate the left side separately for the SL delay, multiplying by .92ms, then the right side for SR (X.92ms). Round to the nearest whole number. SL=7ms, SR=7ms If you want to include the center speaker in your calculations, its the distance in ft. from the R/L speakers, minus the distance in ft. from the center speakers times 1ms (.92ms). 13.5-12.5X.92=.92ms, or 1ms. Thats all folks. Equalizer Settings 03-31-2002 Well folks, this has been a very surprising experiment. It now appears that my first reported set of EQ settings were in fact done in stereo mode. Many tests alternating between stereo and ProLogic modes have confirmed that the first setup was nearly identical to my current STEREO settings. The surprise concerns the settings required for +/-3db output and Band1= 0db for ProLogic mode. I don't know if it is due to room acoustical effects (center speaker only in ProLogic mode), ProLogic processing, or both. There is a larger hole at Band2 (around 250hz) and Band4 (around 8khz) and a reduction of Subwoofer bass which requires less attenuation at the Pod SW setting. I will give you three sets of settings - Stereo, ProLogic, and AVG. which splits the difference between the two, and can be used under all modes if a single, though inaccurate, setting is desired. Again, the speakers are mounted slightly above ear level (sitting) on wood paneling walls with hi-lo wall-to-wall carpet, upholstered couch, love seat and chair. STEREO +/-3db output, Band1= 0db: Pod SW= -9db, Band1= 0db, Band2= +3db, Band3= +1db, Band4= +2db, Band5= +10db ProLogic +/-3db output, Band1= 0db: Pod SW= -3db, Band1= 0db, Band2= +10db, Band3= 0db, Band4= +4db, Band5= +10db AVG. Pod SW= -6db, Band1= 0db, Band2= +7db, Band3= +1db, Band4= +3db, Band5= +10db Well guys, I finally dug out from storage my pink noise generator and audio freq. analyzer to set up the DD-5.1 equalizer with PM 5.1 speakers. I have them mounted on the wood paneled walls of our living room which has a hi-lo wall-to-wall carpet, an upholstered couch, love seat and chair, and thin/shear curtains (no drapes) over the windows. The room is basically neutral acoustically. I cranked up the volume to 80db SPL and set the analyzer for C weighting and started the EQ adjustments. The results were surprising. [Revised - These adjustments may have been erroneously made while in the Prologic Enable mode. Since R/L channels contain the same signal, the decoder strips the signal and routes it to the center channel ONLY. I will redo after instrumentation is recharged. This will also indicate speaker placement/room acoustics effects] To realize a flat response with the Pod SW= 0db and a +/- 3db output, use the following EQ settings: Band1= -9db, Band2= +2db, Band3= +2db, Band4= 0db, Band5= +10db. I personally prefer to set Band1= 0db and set Pod SW= -9db for flat response, Pod SW= -6db for music, and Pod SW= 0db for DVD's and XBox games. I was not surprised by the high amplitude bass, but I was by the severe High Freq. rolloff. I asked Klipsch on Monday if this was a result of using a 'near field' speaker system in a 'far field' application/environment where the high freq. are spread widely over a 90 deg. pattern, or if this was a characteristic of the tweeters. I have not received an answer to this question to date. They evidently feel that these answers are company classified confidential. Oh well. At least the info. for setting the equalizer is available to those who have this system but don't have the instrumentation /knowledge to find out what it needs to be. Try it out. I found the improvement remarkable, and may eliminate TheEAR's objections to the PM 5.1. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Donald1800: As I understand it, the application of the Bass Configuration for Klipsch speaker systems are as follows: Bass Conf. 1 Small speaker mode. Used for other brand speakers with small single transducers (speakers) Bass Conf. 2 2.1 (stereo) Bass Conf. 3 4.1 Bass Conf. 4 5.1 Andy W (Klipsch tech rep): #1 is indeed "small" mode for all 5 satellites. In this mode the DD-5.1 is doing the bass management, like any preamp/processor does, only that the frequency of the crossover is fixed. The ProMedia 5.1 does it's own bass management, which is why "large" mode is recommended. #2 is "large" mains and "small" center and surrounds. #3 is "large" mains and surrounds and "small" center. Bass Config. Off is all satellites in "large" mode. --> for the ProMedia 4.1 the recommended setting is "BASS CONFIG. OFF" (all sats "large") and "SPK C OFF" (using the Cen button on the remote). Turning off the center speaker mixes the center channel into the front left and right for a phantom center channel. Also turn off the sub output ("SPK SW OFF"). --> for the ProMedia 2.1 the recommended setting is "BASS CONFIG. OFF" and "SPK C OFF" and "SPK SUR OFF" (using the SL/SR button on the remote). Turning off the surround speakers mixes the rear channels into the fronts. Also turn off the sub output ("SPK SW OFF"). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now from Justin... Here is the back of the DD51 for those who do not have one yet.	Browse Hot Topic Help What's this about RMS? Manufaturer's spec ratings after Nov. 4, 1974 5.1 Speaker Setup PowerDVD 4.0 XP DD-51 Setup DD-51 Setup Part 2 Getting 5.1 on SBLive 5.1 Getting 5.1 on GTXP 6.1 Getting 5.1 on Audigy Getting 5.1 on Santa Cruz Getting 5.1 on Acoustic Edge Calculate Peaks and Nulls